For the vast majority of people trying to lose weight, gain weight or improve their body composition, figuring out where to start and what to focus on is the most challenging part. This is why I wanted to bring on Rebel’s Nutrition Coach, Erin Murray, to unpack the most optimal way for YOU to approach your nutrition journey for the best results.
A few points we hit on in the episode are food quantity, food quality, food data, and food behavior. All of the above is extremely important because if you aren’t measuring and tracking well, you won’t know what exactly needs to change. Because let’s face it, nutrition is never going to be a quick fix. It’s all about the small actions that compound over time. Listen in to learn how to put the habits, actions and behaviors in place now, so that you’ll see compounding progress over the next 10 to 20 years.
What You’ll Learn in this Episode:
- [04:08] Intro to Erin Murray
- [06:49] Quality versus quantity and what you should start with first
- [08:36] The importance of food behavior
- [09:30] Energy balance and understanding what is occurring in your nutrition
- [12:30] The effect of eating fast and being a distracted eater
- [13:47] Small changes leading to massive outcomes
- [17:52] Being the Tom Brady of nutrition
- [21:19] The massive journey between where you are now and the outcome
- [22:00] The importance of being process driven
- [23:56] Building the version of yourself you want to build
- [26:41] Misreporting
- [30:57] The mindset shift
- [33:30] Where to find Erin
James Cerbie: Let’s jump in with Erin Murray. Erin, there we go. Awesome. We are off and running. Happy Friday. How has the week been for you?
Erin Murray: Thank you. Happy Friday. All is well over here. Thank you.
James Cerbie: Yes. Dealing with the joys of a New England transition from winter to spring and trying to figure out 40-degree weather bumps, it sounds like.
Erin Murray: Exactly. It’s making it a little tricky to plan my garden. So, I need the weather to even out a little bit for me. But hopefully New England will work with me.
James Cerbie: Yes. That’s tough. My wife and I. Okay. I say my wife and I. That’s not true. My wife planted our garden probably about a month ago now, and it has been thriving. The thing about Knoxville that’s great is it’s a relatively temperate climate. It doesn’t get super-hot and doesn’t get super cold. And it gives you enough humidity and moisture that things really thrive. But, yeah, we kind of hit our first hurdle right now. A couple of things are not thriving as much as we think they should be. So, we’re trying to figure out, okay, it’s just like this never ending problem-solving loop. It’s like, do they get enough water? Is it not enough water? Is it a soil thing? Why is this thing not growing anymore?
Erin Murray: Yeah. So much Detective work.
James Cerbie: It really is. I’m like back that people grow so much food is mind blowing to me. Like, if you were a farmer and you do that full time, hats off to you because it’s incredible.
Erin Murray: Really, really complex stuff. You really got to know what you’re doing to do it. Well, it’s super interesting.
James Cerbie: I know. It’s absolutely fascinating, but we’re not here today to talk about farming, although that would be a really good podcast at some point in the future, because I think people should be making an effort to grow more of their own food and produce just so they know where it comes from. I think it’s a good thing, a good habit to get into moving forward in life. However, today we’re going to be talking about some more basic nutrition questions. But before we dive into the episode, I would love it if you could give people just a quick rundown on who you are, what you do, then we can also introduce you as Rebel Performances nutrition coach, which we are so amped and excited for. That’s one thing that we’ve had so many requests for, and we’re just so thrilled to have you on the team. But, yeah, if you give the quick elevator pitch on who you are and what you do, and then we’ll dive in and start talking about some quantity, quality things.
Intro to Erin Murray
Erin Murray: Perfect. Yes. So, my background is I have my Masters of science in nutrition research, plus my didactic program in Dietetics. My boards for my medical license to be a dietitian is actually in two weeks. But I’ve been a nutritionist and a nutrition coach for probably about five years now. And for that, I was a personal trainer and CrossFit coach. So, I’ve been working with clients for about eight or nine years now. And then I’m also a research assistant, so I research and see people. And I used to be in a hospital a lot, so I’m out of the hospital setting. So really kind of every shade of nutrition is what I work with and especially work with humans and their nutrition. So that’s the big focus of my life and my work.
James Cerbie: I love it. Yeah. It was funny when we started talking at Rebel about bringing on a nutrition coach, and I was just kind of floating ideas out to people. And it was like, hey, if you were going to hire one person, who would it be? It was like, you’re the name that I kept getting from people. I was like, all right, cool. Well, it’s clearly got to be Erin. And then the more we chatted, I was like, oh, this is a no brainer. It’s kind of that analogy. Right. Like you want to be 10ft wide and 10ft tall. And I feel like that’s what you bring to the table and why I’m so excited to have you on board because I think some people and you see this a lot in academia, like when I was in grad school, you see this where you see people who are really tall but super narrow. Once you get outside this little narrow specialty, everything falls apart really rapidly. I appreciate that from a research standpoint. But when we’re actually trying to coach humans, it’s hard to be really successful if you have a very narrow operating range.
Right. We want a very wide operating range and one that’s very tall as well. So we can help the most people in the most ways be super successful. And then the topic today that I would like to focus on because nutrition is such a big one. But I think a question that we have been getting that I have gotten is people trying to figure out where to start. Right. Whether it’s trying to gain weight or whether it’s trying to lose weight. That’s generally one of the two directions people are trying to move in. And the question that I get a lot of times is like, well, when I’m starting this, should I be focusing more on food quantity or on food quality? Should be focusing on both because we know how hard behavior changes for people. And I think if we can get some clarity on, like order hierarchy here, hierarchy of demands. Right. Let’s focus on getting this in place first. Once this is in place, then let’s focus on this so we can actually put you in a position to be really successful because we tried to change everything at once. You’re not going to change anything and nothing’s going to happen.
And that’s a loss. Right. So we got to pick like from a starting point standpoint, do you like to focus on just quantity first and then transition to quality or kind of walk me through your thoughts on that.
Quantity Versus Quality and Where You Should Start First
Erin Murray: Yeah, that’s a really good question. There’s a lot in there. So, I would say when I view people in their nutrition, I really view it as this huge constellation because there’s the food itself. So, I think of their nutrition, biochemistry and their physiology. But then there’s really also this other side of the house that I think can’t be understated, which is what I call food behavior. And for some folks, some of those food behavior items are going to be primary pieces that we need to look at first. But then also we can’t ignore the food itself. So, if someone is having a food relationship issue, food is being used in certain ways that aren’t serving their health or their goals. That usually is something to soften and shift around first so that then they can actually get things from their nutrition. And the way I kind of frame that in my brain is really there. And this is kind of the biggest conundrum of nutrition. There’s so much wonderful research. We actually know a lot about the way food is used in our bodies. We don’t know everything, but we have really strong evidence for a multitude of different components of our nutrition in our bodies and how those work in terms of performance, but recovery and longevity and inflammation and all these wonderful things of our physiology.
The Importance of Food Behavior
But if we can’t access those tools because an individual isn’t in a place to be able to apply those principles because there’s something going on in their food behavior and in their goal setting and things like that, that’s going to be a primary thing to noodle around with first that’s got to be retooled so that then they can access nutrition science. And that to me is one of the reasons why I think behavior and behavior change is so key because I love our science. There’s all this awesome stuff to use. But for a lot of people, it’s just sitting there on the shelf and not accessible. So, I would say for a lot of folks, we just need to make sure that they’ve built some healthy behaviors around food because that really could be the biggest rock. So, we have to start with the lowest hanging fruit there with some of that. And then we can start looking at that quantity factor. But quantity and quality can kind of web in and out of one another because for some people, the quality is an issue that alters consumption because some foods are so hard to regulate.
Energy Balance and Understanding What’s Occurring in Your Nutrition
So in some senses, we can hit the quantity by hitting the quality depending on where someone’s baseline diet is. But no doubt the biggest thing, the bottom of the pyramid of what is occurring in someone’s nutrition is definitely energy balance. So, in that regard, just from the numeric side of things, from that Bio-chem side of things, quantity is going to be key because that will determine everything. Energy stores, energy availability, muscle, fat, tissue, all those things. So, we can kind of work through those in a few different ways depending on the individual. But for a lot of people, thankfully, a lot of those things actually do work well together. So, they can hit a few things at once.
James Cerbie: Yeah. I think that it is really important, as you mentioned, that this is nuanced. Right. When we’re talking about nutrition, we are ultimately talking about human behavior. And there’s a whole lot that goes on here. I think the idea of a constellation makes a lot of sense to me. I love that analogy because I think sometimes people go on the Internet or they go on social media and they hear this very dogmatic, very simple approach to nutrition. It’s like, oh, well, you need to do keto or you need to do carnivore, you need to do paleo. You need to do like, no one ever talks about the Mediterranean anymore. But like, ten years ago, it’s like, oh, you got to do Mediterranean or you got to do Atkins or you got to do zone. And it’s like everybody loves to take nutrition and just like, put a label on it and call it their own thing. Well, at the end of the day, it’s food. We’re just talking about different ways to consume food to put you in a position to be really successful, whether it’s hitting your strength goals, your physique goals, your performance goals, your health goals, your longevity goals, whatever it’s going to be.
Right. And I think that’s one of the biggest things to get across here. And what I love about your approach and what you’re doing is we’re not trying to force you down a particular path because I think that there are people out there that do that. Like, it’s a very restrictive approach. You’ve got to do it this way. But I think in the nutrition realm, it’s important to consider that there are so many ways and options for you to be really successful here. It’s really more about molding that clay and figuring out the person in question and their habits and their lifestyle and what they’re struggling with and what their goals are like, what their schedule looks like on a day-to-day basis. Are they married? Do they have kids? Like, what’s going on in the house? How about a job at work? And you have to really mold it to that person in front of you and figure out what it is that they need to be really successful?
The Effect of Eating Fast and Being a Distracted Eater
Erin Murray: Absolutely. And in that regard, to your point, I feel like there’s a lot of things that look really little or low-level that just get completely missed, and their potency is poorly understood. So, for something as simple as are you eating if you’re someone who’s lifting, for example, if we have a client who’s training and they’re aiming to put on muscle and they’re working really hard, and we look at are you eating protein pulses throughout the day with highly bioavailable complete amino acid profiles? Many athletes, it’s like, well, now, I didn’t have lunch today, and that’s okay. But actually, that does matter. Or are you someone who eats so fast because you’re underfed during the day or you eat while you’re watching TV, and then you’re not even kind of regulating the meal with all the components of your nervous system that should be able to regulate that meal because you’re watching a show or whatever it might be, and then you’re eating really fast and not enjoying things, and then you have an upset stomach. And honestly, a lot of people are really fast and distracted eaters, and it completely changes their calorie intake and their digestion.
Or are we eating out from home all the time because we don’t have some basic cooking skills and people, I’m sure it’s tempting to say, especially as you mentioned, because we want to do all these things at once. People might think, Erin, I got to learn to Cook a little bit or I got to get better about lunch, or you want me to eat slower, like, really? But I’m thinking you would be amazed if you actually did that. They seem so small that we think, yeah, I can do that. And then we look at it and we look at; did I actually do that? Am I doing that? And then often we’re not. And actually, all those little things come together and just matter so much and they can be really potent. So in that regard to all those little behaviors, things can serve a higher purpose when they’re strung together and truly executed.
James Cerbie: Yes, I totally agree. I think people always overlook the simple things at the bottom of the pyramid, the foundational elements. But at the end of the day, people I think would be amazed at how the small changes are the ones actually, the small simple changes are the ones that are going to give you the biggest return on investment and get you the biggest change. All the super fancy stuff that everybody wants to talk about on the Internet, that’s like the sprinkle on the icing on the cake on the whole thing here. Right. But everybody jumps to those really flashy things because for some reason it’s sexy and I think it’s going to really help them a lot. But they’re totally missing all these really big rock foundational things like you mentioned. And yeah, I think the whole James Clear thing with atomic habits. Right. Small changes are what leads to massive outcome differences. It’s just the consistency of small changes over time and the compounding effect. And being able to get people to focus on those things, like missing lunch is a huge one. Right. It’s like I think about myself. I hate lunch. Lunch is like the worst meal of the day.
It’s so obnoxious. It’s right in the middle. Like, I don’t want to stop what I’m doing. It’s such a pain in the ass. But at the end of the day, I think about myself and the people listening to this. If you’re here listening to this, I’m going to assume that you are what I would categorize as a high output human. It’s like you show up and the gas pedal is down pretty much in every aspect of your life, your profession, your family, your relationships, your friends, definitely your training, your active lifestyle. You are a high output human. And I think about myself, it’s like if I miss lunch, there’s just no way for me to make that up anywhere. It’s like I’m not going to be able just to double down at dinner or throw more food. And at the end of the day, I’m going to be off. I will be under by at least 500 calories come the end of the day if I miss something as simple as lunch. Right. But people don’t want to have that conversation to look at that for some reason. And the way I like to talk about nutrition with folk, I think, is that why would you show up and work so hard in every other aspect of your life if you’re not going to get this most core foundational bit in place?
Because it’s the thing that’s going to fuel and give you the capacity to actually be good at all these other things. Right. If the nutrition is not there, all the training and everything else you’re doing is frankly, kind of it’s not a waste of time. But I like to use the analogy of you’re pretty much trying to dig a hole in super loose sand. Right. I don’t know if people have ever done this, but if you go to dig a hole in really loose sand, you shovel it out, put it in the wheelbarrow. By the time you turn around, 80% to 90% of the sand has fallen back into the hole. And when you’re just overlooking these core nutritional components, that’s essentially what you’re doing to yourself. You’re working really hard at every other aspect of your life just to let 80% to 90% of the fan continue to fall back in the hole. I don’t understand why we do it that way.
Erin Murray: I know. Absolutely. And with nutrition, too. I always tell my clients; this is not a science of a Hail Mary. You need to throw a ten yard pass every single day for honestly, a couple of years, and then let’s see how things are going. Not to be dramatic, but it’s very similar to lifting. Like, oh, I’ve lifted for a few weeks. I don’t see any difference. It’s so tempting to get caught up in that. And nutrition is the same way. But when we really look at our physiology and this is actually also a good thing about food, I always tell people food is slow. You can be in a virtuous cycle for many years, or you can be in a vicious cycle for many, many years. And over all those years, we can build an animal or we can build a disease. And that is the nature of food. So, we have to kind of get on our body’s clock rather than our culture of immediacy and realize that this science has to be thought of just very differently than the way our culture thinks of it. And I think that’s where people, even high level athletes, can get really stuck.
We want that good, quick stuff without looking at those little things and really executing every day. But in that way, it’s a catch 22 because that’s actually a little bit more pleasant than going on some wacky diet that we can barely maintain. So, there’s also an opportunity there for something a lot more peaceful that’s actually more effective.
Being the Tom Brady of Nutrition
James Cerbie: Yeah. Absolutely. I love that analogy. It’s like being the Tom Brady of nutrition. Tom Brady has not made a career throwing Hail Mary’s. He had one year, he had Randy Moss, and he threw a lot of defaults, I’ll give him that. The rest of his outrageously long career has been made throwing five-yard passes and completing them at a very high rate. Let’s be honest. He’s the King of the five-to-ten-yard pass. Do the same thing with your nutrition, because I think that and again, I’ll reference that Atomic Habits book by James Clear. I think it’s just so good. And he has a graph in there showing a convex curve. Right. And he’s talking about habit formation or anything along these lines. And so, if you’re on a convex curve, the front part of that curve is very flat, like you’re doing something, but you’re not really seeing much change. And so, you have to get to this inflection point where those small habits and daily actions get you onto the upward portion of that growth curve. And now we’re off and running and you’re reaping the benefits of the fact that you’ve been doing this thing.
But so many people give up early on because they’re on the flat part of the curve and they’re not seeing this drastic change. But it’s like, man, if you could just forecast yourself out six months, one year, five years, ten years, if you can just keep doing this thing, you would be so amazed at where you’ll be in one, 3510 years. Right. I think that’s one of the things we start to talk about with our people a lot is when you come on board and rebel. Yeah. We want to get you as much progress and as many results as we can in 16 weeks. But it’s not really about the 16 weeks. It’s about teaching you and showing you what you need to be super successful for the next 510, 15, 2025, 30 years, because that’s where the compounding effect comes in, and that’s what we’re chasing. And that’s where something is simple. To bring this kind of back to where we started is just making sure that your food quantity is right, that you’re not missing meals or that you’re not putting yourself in a position to where you’re just way overeating.
I think you can kind of have, like, that swing in both directions. Right. It’s like you have a person trying to gain weight that just misses lunch three times a week, or you have a person that’s trying to lose weight and they’re super restrictive. And then the end of the day comes and they’re starving and they just come home and it’s like whatever they can find in the cabinets there’s like chips, ice cream, whole gallon chocolate milk, whatever it is, it’s like we’re just going to binge eat all that because I’ve been super restrictive throughout the day. And that quantity component, while not sexy. That’s one of the biggest rocks. We’ve got to make sure we’re getting that right and consistently getting it right. It’s not about getting it right for one day. It’s about learning how to get it right all week, all month, all quarter, all like half year, all year. That’s what we’re chasing here.
Erin Murray: Absolutely. And with that way that we tend to approach nutrition like that food anyways has this interesting nature to it. That’s very exteroceptive. So, it really can connect with those seeking behaviors and us and some of that dopaminergic behavior that we all have deeply wired in here. And it’s very exteroceptive, which actually poses a little bit of a challenge from the outset when we have a nutrition goal. Because there’s this thing outside of me that I need to keep using the right way. And I’m really thinking of this thing that I want down the line. So, for weight loss, for example, we have these as you know, we have all these outcome goals. I want to lose 10 pounds, I want to lose 20 pounds. I want to look leaner. I want whatever very long-term outcome based. And there’s really this massive journey between where we are now and that outcome and food already is extra receptive. So a big task that I like to get my clients into is actually becoming a much more process driven person that’s enjoying their food and interacting with their food and having some fun with their food, like maybe planting a tomato plant and cooking a little bit more at home and trying some new recipes or I was even just talking with a client yesterday whose friends really like to go out, and she kind of ends up at restaurants and bars and all these things.
And we talked about whether we might even want to shift some of our social situation. How about we start inviting friends over for dinner and we ask everybody to bring a dish? Let’s start interacting with food a little differently so that we’re a little bit more process driven. And then all these really interesting details like how we’re eating and how much we’re eating, understanding that quantity, where food is coming from, then the quality of the food. It becomes easier to embrace those details when we shift out of that very extra receptive, reward seeking based outcome goal. And we realize there’s actually this process that I need to drop into and cultivate, and good things will keep coming from that, just as they will with my training, for sure.
The Massive Journey Between Where You Are Now and the Outcome
James Cerbie: I think sometimes people get so obsessed with the goal and it’s not even really about the goal because the thing with goals is like once you get to the goal, you’ve already essentially moved on, establishing whatever the next goal is going to be. It’s like once you climb this mountain, you’re already thinking about, okay, well, let’s look at this next Hill. I need to get to the only reason that we have goals is so we can backtrack and establish what the daily actions and habits are to be the type of person that does this thing consistently so that it will actually get you to that goal. Right. But it’s not about the goal. It’s about what are the actions and habits that I have to do consistently that are going to make me the type of person that will then inevitably reach this goal. And so, I think the distinction between those two extremes are really important because sometimes people become way too goal oriented but they need to be process oriented because you can’t achieve a goal without the process. Right. It’s like the only reason I set a goal is so I can establish the process needed to get to that goal.
But I think people sometimes get those two worlds flipped and it makes things really difficult for themselves.
Building the Version of Yourself You Want to Build
Erin Murray: Absolutely. And that’s actually kind of a funky thing that I tried to work around with my clients. When I ask people what they want to achieve, I actually don’t say that. I don’t say what do you want from your nutrition? I ask people and we’ve been talking about this with our rebel clients as well. I ask people to tell me about the version of you that you want to build, what does he look like? What does he do? What’s his day like, what’s different about him? And the reason I think of that is I view us all as having many versions of us. Like grad school Erin was very different from Erin now and high school Erin and probably where I am next year, there’s these very different versions of Erin that have different amounts of muscle on her body that’s eating differently. There’s different sleep and wake routines. Erin was at the hospital all day. It’s very different from Erin who has time to lift during the day. And so, I think of these versions and I try to remind my clients we want to honor and respect all these different versions of us but if we want something different, we will have to be different.
So the version of Erin that perhaps has more muscle or is doing something different with food, she’s going to have to have a different day, she’s going to have to have different behaviors. And for some people, even if you want that healthy relationship with food or body recomposition, how does that version of you think about food, use food, interact with food, shop for food, her day and her week will be different. So instead of thinking of I just want to lose 10 pounds, I really want to think of what’s the version of me that has more muscle, that has this relationship with food that I want that eats different quantities of food because that way we’re thinking in these processes and we’re thinking in behaviors and practices in that regard. I don’t ask people what do you want to achieve? I ask them about the version of them they want to become because then we start getting our brain on board with those details, for sure.
James Cerbie: I love that. And so, for people listening to this right now who are kind of like, guys, this all sounds great. But what really small first step can I take for myself and implement on my own? What would you tell somebody, right, if they’re listening to this podcast? All this sounds amazing. But if I want to try doing this for myself a little bit, where is the first place I should focus? What’s that very first small step that I should take, right? Is it just like, let’s get online, use a calorie calculator? There’s a bazillion of them. They’re not hard to find. Just figure out, okay, here’s generally how many calories I need to be eating. And then here’s generally how that breaks down into macros. Maybe I should put all my focus on that first small step of just trying to hit these numbers consistently. I don’t know if you would have a tip of recommendation on what’s that first small step that someone can take if they really want to try to do this on their own.
Misreporting
Erin Murray: So there’s really a number of ways you can tackle this. But one very good 300-foot view place to begin, notoriously with nutrition, is actually the first hurdle we tend to have. Even in our big studies, we have these huge hurdles of what we’ll call misreporting. And it’s not to say that people are bad people or that they’re intentionally lying, but with nutrition, we have this it’s almost funny. We all do it. Even they’ll actually do research on dietitians and they’re still misreporting by about 10%. We have this problem in nutrition where I believe in our health behaviors in general, where we’re not always truly aware of what the heck we’re doing. And in nutrition research, we have a common value where people are misreporting nutrition and data and health behavior by about 30% to 60%, which is to say my participants in my study report their total calorie intake. They might be off by 30% to 60%. That is a lot that is not a reliable value. And so, in that regard, one of the first things I do with almost any client is start tuning in and auditing. One day we might think, yeah, I eat vegetables, but do you and how much and how much protein do you really eat?
And yeah, I think I got enough sleep. Okay. When are you literally going to bed? Are you actually sleeping? Well. And then it’s like, well, I am on TikTok for an hour, and then I don’t put my phone down till eleven. And I did miss lunch today, which is okay.
But we just need to know that because we need to know what your body is really getting right now. And then that helps us make a game plan for priorities. So, when it comes to specific nutritional intake. I really challenge people because it’s not easy. Tune in fully to what you’re getting. So, one place to begin can be to track in something like a chronometer or even with food photos or flexible macros. And really look at what your body is getting at the baseline right now. Because what our physiology is at this very moment is the lagging result of what we’ve been doing for the past year. So, let’s see what we’re getting. And then if, depending on what your goal is, if you want to gain muscle or something, we’re going to have to look at increasing protein, increasing lifting. Are you even lifting enough would be a question? So really auditing your health is where I would first begin to get a very, very good, accurate picture on what your body is actually getting.
The Mindset Shift
James Cerbie: I love that. I think that’s perfect. What gets measured gets managed, and if the measurement is trashed, then there’s nothing to manage. So, yeah, it’s data, guys and girls listening. It’s just that I don’t know if there’s anything more important in your life than your own health and wellbeing. So, if you’re going to show up for something, please do not fudge this. It’s not that hard. Like, these numbers are very concrete. It’s like you have a little scale, and it’s going to tell you exactly how much this thing weighs. And you just put that exact weight into whatever food tracker maybe you’re using, or you’re just keeping a log by day. It’s like, what time do you go to bed? What time do you wake up? And don’t fudge that. Just be like, super honest, right? It’s just the math doesn’t lie unless you make it lie. I think that’s perfect. I think that’s the absolute best place for people to start is to get really good at tracking what you’re actually doing. So, you understand where you are because you can’t know what needs to change unless you know where you currently are with as much accuracy and validity as we can possibly have.
Erin Murray: 100% and exactly what you said. I tell people it’s a good thing to make sense. If you’re telling me, you eat one egg per day and you’re not losing even a half pound per week, I’m sending you to the hospital. It is actually okay to say, you know what? I’m not quite where I want to be. I haven’t had any muscle gain. I’m kind of feeling like crap. That’s okay. Let’s get data on that, because that means there’s something you can do about it. So, it’s a very good thing to make sense. So, it’s okay if your data is a little funky and you’re thinking, Man, I have a few areas of opportunity here. That’s awesome. That gives you a really good track. And it means that you and your body both make sense, which I would wager is usually the case. Your body’s not bad. Your body is not producing muscle for no reason or whatever the goal might be. Our body responds to stimuli. So, we just need to be really clear about that. And then you know that you actually have an internal locus of control for creating some of those shifts.
James Cerbie: I think the mindset shift on what you just said is super important for people because I think sometimes when they start to track, especially the perfectionist in the crowd, it’s like they get deterred from tracking because they’re like, oh, my God, this is so bad. And they start to manipulate the data because they’re like, well, this is more right, because people get into this rhythm of our entire life. We’re rewarded and told like, oh, well, we’re going to be in school and you’re going to study all this stuff, and you’re going to go take a test, and we want you to get A’s on these tests, like these random things that we’ve created to judge whether or not you’re good at this subject, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, it’s like when people start to track and measure this for themselves, it’s like, oh, my God, I’m not passing the test, but I’m going to fudge this to make sure that I am passing the test. And then my brain is like, oh, see, everything’s fine. But at the end of the day, the way that you phrase it is perfect. It’s like if you’re not moving towards your goals and you start tracking really accurately, that’s amazing, because it’s not a deficiency.
You’re not failing the test. You’re finding incredible opportunities for improvement. Right. Because it would suck. If you’re not moving in the right direction and you’re doing all the right things, it’s like, okay, that sucks. That’s not fun. I studied my ass off and did everything I could and still got to see on the test sometimes just what it is. But if you’re not moving in the right direction and you track accurately, seeing all these places that are off, that should be super exciting to you because that’s a huge opportunity for improvement. It’s not a failure. I think that mindset shift of people is critically important when doing this type of work.
Erin Murray: Absolutely. And that is where many of us will hit our first hurdle. So be prepared to find some things that maybe don’t feel awesome and just realize that’s data. That’s just data. And make some of my clients even say we have to shift out of, like, failed, good, bad, all those things. And I make some of my clients say that was just data. That’s just data. Then you can use data. So, for those of you who are, that is a big hurdle. I really urge you to shift into a little bit more of a scientist’s brain instead of just being a judge. Just really be a scientist, not a judge.
James Cerbie: Excellent. Well, Erin, this has been a wonderful conversation. I feel like we could just kind of keep this going all day if you really wanted to but I thought this was really good. This was a nice jam packed 30 minutes for folks with lots of Nuggets and takeaways and I hope that you guys enjoyed the episode as much as I enjoyed the conversation. But Erin, thank you so much for coming on again. We are so amped to have you on the rebel team. We are so fortunate and if people wanted to go find you, where would be the best place for them to go? Just kind of follow along with all the things that you are doing.
Where to Find Erin
Erin Murray: So, my Instagram handle is Erin’s uncommon eats and kind of everything branches out from there. All my info for how you can contact me is on there and then my food blog is on there and then a lot of my posts I try to do a lot of nutrition science and behavior change stuff to be helpful so it’s mostly all on there.
James Cerbie: Perfect. Well, go drop Erin a follow and keep up with what she’s doing because she’s fantastic and everybody have a beautiful rest of your week. We’ll talk to you soon. Later, y’all.
Erin Murray: Thank you
Links:
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